Right on cue, James Allen echos my thoughts.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

Think this in particular is really pissing them off.

Quote:

The manufacurers are also very concerned that the public should not get the impression that FIA president Max Mosley is the only one who is trying to cut costs in F1. They argue that many teams would not even be racing this year if the FOTA cost cuts to testing and engine use had not been agreed in December. They want to go further, but they want to be in charge of deciding how far and how quickly. And they want to keep the vital idea of technology and research, which carries across into their road cars.

Of course this will probably be like many other arguments in the past. As usually, the way these things play out is predictable. Mosley comes up with an extreme suggestion that provokes the teams into action. They argue for a bit. Mosley waters down his position a little. The teams grumble a bit but accept it. And everyone goes away until the next political crisis - usually precipitated by another FIA initiative - starts the whole process again.

Enzo Ferraris son has suprised me, i don't usually like comparisons but this one rings quite true.

Quote:

Ferrari stated: "It's like soccer. In Italy we have ­Internazionale, who are winning, and they spend huge amounts of money for the best players. "But in Serie A you also have a team like Catania, who have no money. "So do you say to Catania, 'You can play with 12 players' and to Inter, 'You must play with nine'? No, it wouldn't be fair.

Not the popular view this, but I think Mosley has got the right idea here.
He's trying to bring in things to sustain the sport into the next decade.

There's all the talk of what would F1 be without Ferrari? But what's the point if there's no F1 for Ferrari to compete in?!
Something has got to happen, look at both Honbda teams during the last season, the current level of spending can't be sustained.

greg wrote:

Not the popular view this, but I think Mosley has got the right idea here. He's trying to bring in things to sustain the sport into the next decade. There's all the talk of what would F1 be without Ferrari? But what's the point if there's no F1 for Ferrari to compete in?! Something has got to happen, look at both Honbda teams during the last season, the current level of spending can't be sustained.

Only problem with your argument Greg is that F1 has survived other financal crisis' in the past and that Brawns current succsess is solely due to the fact Honda ploughed hundreds of millions into the development of the current Brawn.

Rubens quickest in practice 1 at Monaco. I only saw the last minute on the TV, looked like chaos as they all tried to find space for a quick lap, most didnt succeed!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108488.stm

Formula 1 has been thrown into chaos after eight of its major teams said they are now planning to set up a rival championship for the 2010 season.

The threat by members of the F1 Teams Association (Fota) escalates their row with world motorsport boss Max Mosley over his budget cap proposals.


Will this tear F1 in whole?
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Barrichello is a little bitch!

The following should be fired (in order of my preference!):

Barrichello
Fisichella
Trulli
Piquet
Bourdais
Webber
Kovalainen

Bring in the new blood! Yeah!
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isnt Bourdais going anyway and they are bringing in someone from formula 3 or something?
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greg wrote:

Barrichello is a little bitch!

Agreed.

plasmo wrote:

The following should be fired (in order of my preference!): Barrichello Fisichella Trulli Piquet Bourdais Webber Kovalainen Bring in the new blood! Yeah!

Webber?!?!? FFS!! Hes a cracking driver who, without his leg break in the winter, would more than likely be miles ahead of Vettel in the championship now! Id keep Heikki in the sport too, hes a good second driver in a top team, much like Rubens was for years at Ferrari. Fisi drove a cracking race as well on the weekend.

Out of interest, who would you replace them with who would do a better job?? I personally dont think ANY of the GP2 drivers this season are good enough!

I can see the logic behind all this though, however i grew up watching the likes of Hill, Senna, Prost dominating the sport while in their mid to late 30s. Those days were the best....

Ice_Cold_Cola wrote:

isnt Bourdais going anyway and they are bringing in someone from formula 3 or something?

Apparently so, although there has been no word from Torro Rosso yet.

Just looking at the one's Pete mentioned...

Mark '1 swallow does not make a summer' Webber:
Webber has won 1 race out of 132 over 7 years... This is hardly impressing.

I feel sorry for him having been injured however he has and never will be as good as Vettel.

This year alone, in the same equipment, Vettel is higher on points, has out qualified Webber 7-1 and had twice as many races where his fastest lap was faster than Webber's (6-3).

That said, race for race Webber is up 6-3 however that is because Vettel is not yet mature enough - He slid out of Monaco and colided with Kubica in Australia, having not made these mistakes, it would have been 5-4 to Vettel!

Heiki 'Chris judged him too early' Kovalainen:
Having looked at his stats i take it back, he's only been around since 2007 and his stats aren't so bad. Give him another season.

Rubens 'The team are to blame, well, anybody but me anyway' Barrichello
Will blame anyone but himself, has been in the sport 16 years and won 9 out of his 280 GP's even though he was in Ferrari for 5 years and is now in a Brawn.

Giancarlo 'Isn't 13 years long enough' Fisichella:
Has won 3 out of 223 races... again, not impressive

I don't know who exactly to replace them with but I'm sure there are plenty of people that would like to give it a go and could do at least as well as those who've already had the chance.

Age:
Prost (4 time champion) retired at 38, Hill (1 time champion) at 39 and Senna (3 time champion) died at 34, drove in a different era and were all world champions. Senna and Prost notably 2 of the best F1 drivers ever and the following cannot be compared to them; Fisichella (36), Barrichello (37), Trulli (35) and Webber (33)

Schumacher (7 time champion) retired at 37 - i think he should come back for 1 more season

They can be compared to current drivers who are beating them though: Hamilton (champion, 24), Vettel (22), Massa (28 ), Raikenen (champion, 30) and Alonso (2 time champion, 28 )

Here is my renewed list for the Axe!:
Barrichello
Fisichella
Trulli
Piquet
Bourdais
Webber
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Surely Fisichella hasn't had a decent car underneath him, he has never been with one of the bigger teams has he?

I do agree Rubens is a whining bitch and should put up or shut up

dont like/dislike Kovaleinan

Webber should do more than he has, 1 win isnt enough in 132
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plasmo wrote:

Just looking at the one's Pete mentioned... Mark '1 swallow does not make a summer' Webber: Webber has won 1 race out of 132 over 7 years... This is hardly impressing. I feel sorry for him having been injured however he has and never will be as good as Vettel. This year alone, in the same equipment, Vettel is higher on points, has out qualified Webber 7-1 and had twice as many races where his fastest lap was faster than Webber's (6-3). That said, race for race Webber is up 6-3 however that is because Vettel is not yet mature enough - He slid out of Monaco and colided with Kubica in Australia, having not made these mistakes, it would have been 5-4 to Vettel! Heiki 'Chris judged him too early' Kovalainen: Having looked at his stats i take it back, he's only been around since 2007 and his stats aren't so bad. Give him another season. Rubens 'The team are to blame, well, anybody but me anyway' Barrichello Will blame anyone but himself, has been in the sport 16 years and won 9 out of his 280 GP's even though he was in Ferrari for 5 years and is now in a Brawn. Giancarlo 'Isn't 13 years long enough' Fisichella: Has won 3 out of 223 races... again, not impressive I don't know who exactly to replace them with but I'm sure there are plenty of people that would like to give it a go and could do at least as well as those who've already had the chance. Age: Prost (4 time champion) retired at 38, Hill (1 time champion) at 39 and Senna (3 time champion) died at 34, drove in a different era and were all world champions. Senna and Prost notably 2 of the best F1 drivers ever and the following cannot be compared to them; Fisichella (36), Barrichello (37), Trulli (35) and Webber (33) Schumacher (7 time champion) retired at 37 - i think he should come back for 1 more season They can be compared to current drivers who are beating them though: Hamilton (champion, 24), Vettel (22), Massa (28 ), Raikenen (champion, 30) and Alonso (2 time champion, 28 ) Here is my renewed list for the Axe!: Barrichello Fisichella Trulli Piquet Bourdais Webber

I agree with the Rubens and Fisi judgments, but am astounded by the Webber one! 6-3 in races, where it matters. Its all very well putting it on pole and banging one fast lap in during the race but none of that gets you points and wins you championships! On top of that, one of those fastest laps for Vettel was done when both drivers were told to save their engines, Webber obeyed and Vettel ignored that team order. Also Fuel Corrected quali results for this season had Webber on pole 4 or 5 times, thats in front of everyone, not just Vettel!

Webber has consistently outperformed his teammates, in fact it took over two years for a teammate to out qualify him! He rarely makes mistakes and when he retires, unlike Vettel, it is almost always because of car failure!

Also you can't really say 'had he not made these mistakes'. Its the old 'what if' scenario. E.G. If Kimi hadn't held up Webber at Britain, if the team hadn't decided to put Vettel on lower fuel for the first 6 races then Webber would have been ahead of everyone.

An interesting quote i found:

Quote:

His best chance at winning a race occurred at the 2007 Japanese Grand Prix where, in the wet conditions, Webber ran in 2nd place, setting the 3rd fastest lap of the race after the two McLarens. Towards the end of the race, with Webber lapping faster than Hamilton due to damage on the McLaren's sidepod from contact with Robert Kubica, Webber was running 2nd behind Lewis Hamilton, with no further pit stops to make. Then Sebastian Vettel, driver for sister team Scuderia Toro Rosso, ran into the back of him when Hamilton suddenly reduced his speed in poor visibility and heavy rain under a safety car, taking both cars out of the race.

That isolated example sums up what im saying very well, Webber taken out of the race through no fault of his own and Vettel making serious errors to take himself out of the race. Hes been in the sport 3 years now, if he wants to win the world title he needs to eradicate errors like at Monaco and Australia.

This isn't an attack on Vettel, i think he has the potential to become one of the best drivers in F1 and this years battle at Red Bull is very even and fascinating to watch. But to me hes not in Prost, Senna, Shumie or in the current grid, Alonso or Hamilton's class. With those drivers you knew within 6 races that they were going to be World Champion. The potential has always been their with Vettel but to me he is much more like Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mika Hakkinen, in that they are in the top level of drivers in F1, ie not up their with the greats but could well have the ability to win the world title given the car and the chance! I would also put Button, DC, Webber and many others over the last 10 years in this class.

AGE:
It's a different era of F1, one in which experience is seen as a bad thing, with the Drivers you mentioned, plus Mansell, Piquet and others they won their final world title at ages older than most of the current grid will driving too and thats because they wont be offered the seats, not because they don't have the ability!

The following is taken from www.formula1.com today:

Quote:

VOTE Which Red Bull driver has the better chance of beating Jenson Button to the drivers' title? * Sebastian Vettel * Mark Webber * Too close to call Sebastian Vettel start point start point start point 59.64% Mark Webber start point start point start point 25.22% Too close to call start point start point start point 15.14%

I think Vettel is one of those drivers where you see him and think, he's going to be world champion and as you say, it's all about doing it where it counts so i take another quote from the official site:

The Current points/championship standing:

Quote:

2 Sebastian Vettel German RBR-Renault 47 3 Mark Webber Australian RBR-Renault 45.5

Vettel is ahead of Webber in the same equipment his first Season in the team but as for Webber not being beaten by his previous team mates:

2002, Minardi:
His team mates was Yoong (and Davidson sat in for 2 races also). This is not an impressive stat, my mother is faster than Yoong and Davidson.

2003, Jaguar:
Pizzonia and Wilson - no further comment required.

2004, Jaguar:
Klien - Wasn't bad. Webber did beat him by 4 points having had a year experience and having been at Jaguar and settled in for a year there.

2005, BMW-Williams:
Heidfeld and Pizzonia. Heidfeld was beating Webber 28-24 but was injured for the last 5 races of the season and Webber got 12 points in those 5 races and ended the season 36-28 to Webber. Pizzonia.. err... no comment on him.

2006, Williams:
In Rosberg's first season he ended up only 3 points short of Webber. This impresses me! (About Rosberg, Not Webber who at this point had 4 previous years experience in F1 and 1 year experience in the Williams team!)

2007, Red Bull:
DC is a good presenter... Enough said? No? DC 14 points, Webber 10.

2008, Red Bull:
DC's retirement year, lines up job with BBC, scores 8 points. Webber mashes him with 21 points but let me tell you how good DC is/was... He is a good presenter!

2009, Red Bull:
Current: Vettel is beating him in his first season at the team.
Prediction: Vettel will beat him by the end of the season.
Wager: I'll but £50 on it.
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plasmo wrote:

Schumacher (7 time champion) retired at 37 - i think he should come back for 1 more season

Now, i don't like the circumstances, but i am really excited at the prospect at seeing Shuey drive again!
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